Author Topic: The 2011 A1W 100 (Read 29298 times)

TH · « **Reply #25 on:** March 13, 2012, 12:45:59 PM »

Quote from: Havok816 on March 13, 2012, 12:28:46 PM

I get the feeling that most people saying Cena can't wrestle are the same ones that think the Eddie/Benoit/Angle "workrate" style was the best thing ever.

Lumping in Eddie with Angle and Benoit is lazy, imo

Zandrax · « **Reply #26 on:** March 13, 2012, 12:49:21 PM »

Quote from: TH on March 13, 2012, 12:45:59 PM

Lumping in Eddie with Angle and Benoit is lazy, imo

Explain

Chus-Kay · « **Reply #27 on:** March 13, 2012, 12:53:20 PM »

Quote from: Zandrax on March 13, 2012, 12:49:21 PM

Explain

he's right. eddie was so much more than flips and workrate. benoit too to a certain extent, but unlike benoit, eddie was the total package.

TH · « **Reply #28 on:** March 13, 2012, 12:59:54 PM »

Eddie Guerrero had MOVEZ, but he also had the best grasp of psychology of the three, better than Benoit and WAY better than Kurt "Let Me Set Up an Ankle Lock with Three German Suplexes, LOL" Angle. A lot of what made him great in the ring also centered around his body language and the things he did between moves, playing to the crowd, taunting his opponents, making it so that everyone in the arena had their eyes glued to him whether he was doing a move or preening or whether he was garnering their praise or calling down the thunder. Benoit was far more calculating, and Angle wanted so bad to be Benoit. Benoit and Guerrero have similar history and upbringing, but they're totally different as wrestlers. Totally. That's what made their matches with each other great when they happened.

Zandrax · « **Reply #29 on:** March 13, 2012, 01:25:07 PM »

I get Angle, but up until the incident He Who Shall Not Be Named was looked at as one of the greatest workers on the planet. I still remember the internet blowing its load over the closing to WMXX.

TH · « **Reply #30 on:** March 13, 2012, 02:33:22 PM »

Quote from: Zandrax on March 13, 2012, 01:25:07 PM

I still remember the internet blowing its load over the closing to WMXX.

And that has nothing to do at all with anything I wrote above

FATSEXY · « **Reply #31 on:** March 13, 2012, 02:54:37 PM »

If Benoit and Eddy were still alive, Benoit would be the guy everyone was calling the best of the era.

Zandrax · « **Reply #32 on:** March 13, 2012, 02:58:42 PM »

Quote from: TH on March 13, 2012, 02:33:22 PM

And that has nothing to do at all with anything I wrote above

So everybody that has ever called Benoit one of the greatest workers is lazy?

TH · « **Reply #33 on:** March 13, 2012, 03:07:13 PM »

Quote from: Zandrax on March 13, 2012, 02:58:42 PM

So everybody that has ever called Benoit one of the greatest workers is lazy?

No, everyone who has lumped Benoit and Eddie as the same kind of wrestler is lazy

Zandrax · « **Reply #34 on:** March 13, 2012, 03:26:07 PM »

That just comes across to me as the type of reasoning somebody would use to say "This type of music is totally different because the bass and drums play differently". I've never heard anybody in the biz try to dissect how somebody is a different type of worker to such a degree.

Good music is good music to me, and good workers are good workers.

EDIT - I guess what I am trying to say is I don't think anybody is trying to say that Eddie and Benoit had the same style, just that they had great workrate.

FATSEXY · « **Reply #35 on:** March 13, 2012, 03:32:36 PM »

Tom and Dylan should meet up in the Contrarian Wrestling Guy World Championship Match.

In this corner, the Western Conference Champion, Dylan. Dylan is from team Barry Windham Was Better Than Ric Flair.

In the opposing corner, the Eastern Conference Champion, Tom. Tom is from team I Watch A Lot Of Wrestling, Which Makes Me Know More About Wrestling Than You.

Chus-Kay · « **Reply #36 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:02:09 PM »

Quote from: Zandrax on March 13, 2012, 03:26:07 PM

EDIT - I guess what I am trying to say is I don't think anybody is trying to say that Eddie and Benoit had the same style, just that they had great workrate.

re-read havok's post.

also, you've really never heard anyone dissect wrestling or music before and make comparisons to other wrestling / music? just go back to aw100 last year. for music, i can't believe you've never heard someone compare things like lead guitarists or this band is good at this while this band is good at that.

eta: look at it like this, if people had the same approach to music as you there wouldn't be different music genre's.

TH · « **Reply #37 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:15:48 PM »

Quote from: FATSEXY on March 13, 2012, 03:32:36 PM

In the opposing corner, the Eastern Conference Champion, Tom. Tom is from team I Watch A Lot Of Wrestling, Which Makes Me Know More About Wrestling Than You.

#1 - how the fuck else is anyone going to know about wrestling if they don't watch a lot of it?

#2 - fuck that noise, if anything, me and Dylan would be a tag team and crush the fuck out of all you losers

Zandrax · « **Reply #38 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:59:25 PM »

Quote from: Chus-Kay on March 13, 2012, 04:02:09 PM

re-read havok's post.

also, you've really never heard anyone dissect wrestling or music before and make comparisons to other wrestling / music? just go back to aw100 last year. for music, i can't believe you've never heard someone compare things like lead guitarists or this band is good at this while this band is good at that.

eta: look at it like this, if people had the same approach to music as you there wouldn't be different music genre's.

I have seen and heard journalists do the music comparisons, yes. What I am saying is I have never heard anybody that works in the wrestling industry microanalyze wrestling styles and call people lazy for not noticing a difference.

All havok said was a "workrate style". Not that any of the guys did similar moves. More like "Eddie and Benoit had five star matches". At least that's how I took it.

FATSEXY · « **Reply #39 on:** March 13, 2012, 05:22:23 PM »

Quote from: TH on March 13, 2012, 04:15:48 PM

#1 - how the fuck else is anyone going to know about wrestling if they don't watch a lot of it?

#2 - fuck that noise, if anything, me and Dylan would be a tag team and crush the fuck out of all you losers

#1 Just because you watch a bunch of something that is shitty, that don't make you an expert. Stratknight's watched a fuck ton of Clemson football, and he wouldn't know what a national powerhouse team looked like if it bit him on the nose.

#2 B2A.

Chus-Kay · « **Reply #40 on:** March 13, 2012, 05:27:43 PM »

Quote from: FATSEXY on March 13, 2012, 05:22:23 PM

#1 Just because you watch a bunch of something that is shitty, that don't make you an expert. Stratknight's watched a fuck ton of Clemson football, and he wouldn't know what a national powerhouse team looked like if it bit him on the nose.

what are you saying was shitty? cause either you watched the same shitty stuff...which puts you in the same category as him...or you didn't watch said shitty something and therefore don't know that it's shitty.

TH · « **Reply #41 on:** March 13, 2012, 05:32:02 PM »

Quote from: FATSEXY on March 13, 2012, 05:22:23 PM

#1 Just because you watch a bunch of something that is shitty, that don't make you an expert.

lol

Havok816 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 13, 2012, 05:50:48 PM »

Lumping Eddie in with Benoit and Angle might not have been the best thing, but the point I was going for was that they wrestled a style that was extremely physical in a bad way and wasn't a lot better than the spot monkey matches. They all ended up as junkies because they couldn't work a less physical style.

Eddie was the best of the three because he could do moves, he used psychology more and had a ton of charisma.

Angle could do moves and had charisma, but he wasn't very good at the psychology of matches.

Benoit was super intense and did moves, but he had no charisma and his idea of selling was his arm hanging limply to his side.

Angle and Benoit ruined the German suplex. That used to be a move that would end a match, but they turned it into something that people kicked out of after three in a row. Their cage match from 10 or so years ago used to be lauded as "the best Raw match ever", but it sucked. They were mat monkeys doing a bunch of moves and "chain wrestling" that looked impressive but didn't make sense and they'd forget to sell a minute later.

Cena's not the greatest ever, but at least he tries to make sense in his matches.

Chus-Kay · « **Reply #43 on:** March 13, 2012, 05:56:12 PM »

i would agree with all that havok. especially that last line. there's a difference between just doing movez and doing movez to put over the story of the match (i believe that's what psychology is).

for example, doing one big move after another just ruins the significance of the big move. it's like an all cage match ppv or doing a ref bump in multiple matches.

FATSEXY · « **Reply #44 on:** March 13, 2012, 06:05:04 PM »

24/7/365(ish)

The Big Don · « **Reply #45 on:** March 13, 2012, 08:06:14 PM »

Quote from: FATSEXY on March 13, 2012, 03:32:36 PM

Tom and Dylan should meet up in the Contrarian Wrestling Guy World Championship Match.

In this corner, the Western Conference Champion, Dylan. Dylan is from team Barry Windham Was Better Than Ric Flair.

In the opposing corner, the Eastern Conference Champion, Tom. Tom is from team I Watch A Lot Of Wrestling, Which Makes Me Know More About Wrestling Than You.

Shouldn't you be pretending that you are dead or pretending you have a wife? Just because you fuck your mother, doesn't make you an expert on MILF porn.

In all seriousness I have never understood the "if you defend opinions I disagree with you are a holier than thou fuck" line. Now granted I am a holier than thou fuck, but that is irrelevant. The point is that if your defense for your shitty opinions is "I don't know what the fuck I am talking about"/"I am a legit mong" that isn't much of a defense.

The Big Don · « **Reply #46 on:** March 13, 2012, 08:11:34 PM »

Also should note that I think Flair was better than Windham, though peak Windham may have been better than peak Flair which is not a particularly contrarian opinion and has been long held view of people for decades. Including Flair

FreebirdSTF · « **Reply #47 on:** March 13, 2012, 08:12:18 PM »

Forget all that, what say you about The Big Don and TH joining forces as a tag team?

Chus-Kay · « **Reply #48 on:** March 13, 2012, 08:26:07 PM »

Quote from: FreebirdSTF on March 13, 2012, 08:12:18 PM

Forget all that, what say you about The Big Don and TH joining forces as a tag team?

sounds serious. cue sexy boy music.

stratknight · « **Reply #49 on:** March 14, 2012, 07:47:40 AM »

Quote from: FATSEXY on March 13, 2012, 05:22:23 PM

Stratknight's watched a fuck ton of Clemson football, and he wouldn't know what a national powerhouse team looked like if it bit him on the nose.

WTF. I watched Alabama plow us in 08. I know exactly what a national champion looks like, they just don't wear a Clemson uniform (until next year that is, we're legit contenders in '13).