Topic: Reimagining the Horsemen

[Zandrax]

Who wouldn't have marked out at Chris Benoit putting Hogan in the Crossface?

[bryce]

Who wouldn't have marked out at Chris Benoit putting Hogan in the Crossface?

daniel and nancy

[Niall]

Our point is that the group was still hot if WCW would have got behind it instead of cutting it off at its knees.  The Horsemen were still getting a great reaction and a past his prime Curt Hennig was still excellent Horsemen material.  WCW just had no interest in trying to get them over.

Basically, Chus and I are saying that your premise is incorrect.  While the late-90s Horsemen may not have been "the best heels in the promotion" they still could have succeeded.  The concept didn't fail because of the reason you stated.  It failed because WCW chose to not push them at all.

Oh, I quite agree there.  It was obvious that WCW had no intention of going anywhere with it - but I doubt that that incarnation would have really done anything all that great even if they had been given the opportunity.  As much as I love Malenko's matches, he and Mongo, Hennig etc wouldn't have cut it as top level guys.  Maybe Hennig at a stretch, but even then, the Rap is Crap stuff was probably his best work in WCW and even then, it wasn't main event level.

[Chus-Kay]

Oh, I quite agree there.  It was obvious that WCW had no intention of going anywhere with it - but I doubt that that incarnation would have really done anything all that great even if they had been given the opportunity.  As much as I love Malenko's matches, he and Mongo, Hennig etc wouldn't have cut it as top level guys.  Maybe Hennig at a stretch, but even then, the Rap is Crap stuff was probably his best work in WCW and even then, it wasn't main event level.

again....the horsemen reformation was getting a ton of support from fans.
 
and then the bookers pulled the rug out from under it.
 
those horsemen could have been the heroes to defeat the nwo if they were booked that way and it would have been totally welcomed by the fans.

[Zandrax]

Yup. Booking The Horsemen as faces that topple the NWO would have been a poetic justice booking.

[FreebirdSTF]

Is a Horsemen with Malenko and Mongo in it ideal?  No, but they were still over and I believe would have continued to be had they been treated with any respect by the booking staff. 

Malenko on his own is fine imho, but with him and Benoit in there together they felt to similar and without going all Kevin Nash on you, small.

[FreebirdSTF]

Yup. Booking The Horsemen as faces that topple the NWO would have been a poetic justice booking.

The moment when Sting and Luger approached Ric and Arn about helping take down the nWo at War Games was magical and made perfect sense.

[FreebirdSTF]

Also Hennig with the Horsemen would have made both feel more important than the Hennig to the nWo swerve did.

[Niall]

If you wanted a Horsemen to topple the nWo in 98/99, it should have been a babyface group of maybe Flair, Goldberg and a tag team - maybe Hennig and Hall. I remember thinking at the time when Curt Hennig joined the Horsemen, that Hall turning and joining the Horsemen would have been a cool move.  Hall was probably more fucked up on drink than Hennig was on drugs at the time though.

[FreebirdSTF]

There were rumors that Hall and Flair were going to unite at some point during the trip to the mental institution.

I disagree that you would need a Goldberg in the group.  The Horsemen were faces anyway even though they still talked and acted (to a degree) like heels. 

[Chus-Kay]

If you wanted a Horsemen to topple the nWo in 98/99, it should have been a babyface group of maybe Flair, Goldberg and a tag team - maybe Hennig and Hall. I remember thinking at the time when Curt Hennig joined the Horsemen, that Hall turning and joining the Horsemen would have been a cool move.  Hall was probably more fucked up on drink than Hennig was on drugs at the time though.

you're basing things on how wcw was booking its wrestlers.
 
what dave and are saying is that horsemen in the configuration they had could have easily worked (with fan approval) if booked correctly.

[Niall]

There were rumors that Hall and Flair were going to unite at some point during the trip to the mental institution.

I disagree that you would need a Goldberg in the group.  The Horsemen were faces anyway even though they still talked and acted (to a degree) like heels.

Fans really wanted to cheer Hall.  It's a shame he went the way he did.  He could have been huge for WCW.  From the moment he came in, he was a fan favourite, despite playing a heel. 

[bryce]

the answer is.....it was a once and a lifetime thing and the right people were in the right place and time to make it work.

the big three of the original group (flair/arn/tully) had such a great chemistry
nobody has ever topped it

you could replace the ole character with various different people  (lugar, sid, barry) but in the end, it was the above three who made the machine go.  once tully left, it was never duplicated.

[FreebirdSTF]

I agree with you up until the point that I think you are underselling Ole a good bit.  I used to think the Windham version of the group was superior, but I now realize that the original incarnation with Ole is the best.

BTW, a solid replacement for Tully would be his old partner, Gino Hernandez.

[bryce]

I agree with you up until the point that I think you are underselling Ole a good bit.  I used to think the Windham version of the group was superior, but I now realize that the original incarnation with Ole is the best.

BTW, a solid replacement for Tully would be his old partner, Gino Hernandez.

i agree with the gino bit,  him and tully were essentially the same guy.

in world class, the adams/gino duo was the closest group at the time (IN MY OPINION FUCKMARKS), of reaching all the success the horsemen obtained as far a credibility, heat...ect.  in their own little world/promotion

[The_Spoiler]

i agree with the gino bit,  him and tully were essentially the same guy.

in world class, the adams/gino duo was the closest group at the time (IN MY OPINION FUCKMARKS), of reaching all the success the horsemen obtained as far a credibility, heat...ect.  in their own little world/promotion

I dunno.  If Bockwinkel was arguably too old in 1986 to replace Flair, Gino was certainly too dead at that time to replace Tully.

[bryce]

I dunno.  If Bockwinkel was arguably too old in 1986 to replace Flair, Gino was certainly too dead at that time to replace Tully.

expand your mind, brocat

[FATSEXY]

Bockwinkle sucked. In alternate reality, The Freebirds pick up Dusty Rhodes and become the Horsemen.

[bryce]

Bockwinkle sucked. In alternate reality, The Freebirds pick up Dusty Rhodes and become the Horsemen.

well after reading this...


the head or the balls, jamie


what is your favorite part?

[FATSEXY]

well after reading this...


the head or the balls, jamie


what is your favorite part?

I don't get it, brian.

[FreebirdSTF]

Dusty and the Freebirds would be a good foil for the Horsemen.  Look at the Hayes/Flair exchanges when Hayes was a face.

[Chus-Kay]

I don't get it, brian.

he likes your suggestion and wants to reward you.