Author Topic: RAW 2-21-2011  (Read 28477 times)

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tillrules

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2011, 07:09:55 PM »
Wrestling is at it's best when it makes you forget it's a TV show and believe it's a sport.

That's the real point here.  When you can watch the show as a sport, even though you know it isn't, that's when its best.  When you can believe that either wrestler has a real chance and there is no obvious result.
 

KoppoKick

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2011, 07:12:42 PM »
That's the real point here.  When you can watch the show as a sport, even though you know it isn't, that's when its best.  When you can believe that either wrestler has a real chance and there is no obvious result.

When has that ever been the case with WWE? The eras of Hogan, Austin and Cena, it was obvious when they would win and the rare times they would lose.

They went 16 years before letting a heel win at WrestleMania and guys like TH KILLED them for doing something different. The internet is gonna bitch no matter what.

Little Jimmy

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2011, 07:16:26 PM »
When has that ever been the case with WWE? The eras of Hogan, Austin and Cena, it was obvious when they would win and the rare times they would lose.

They went 16 years before letting a heel win at WrestleMania and guys like TH KILLED them for doing something different. The internet is gonna bitch no matter what.

There are certain shows like Wrestlemania where the right result is that the good guy wins... In Return of the Jedi, Luke wins.. at the end of Return of the King, The Humans, Elves, and Hobbits win... Wrestlemania to me is the end of whatever story they have been building to over the past year.

When Austin and Rock were popular... You also had Undertaker, Angle, Hunter, Kane, Foley... All of them got their shine on at certain points.

TH

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2011, 07:17:46 PM »
When has that ever been the case with WWE? The eras of Hogan, Austin and Cena, it was obvious when they would win and the rare times they would lose.

They went 16 years before letting a heel win at WrestleMania and guys like TH KILLED them for doing something different. The internet is gonna bitch no matter what.

Guys like TH? Back it up, I LOVED the Austin heel turn when it happened, and I only hated Triple H winning because I hated Triple H. It's bad business, but don't lump me in with everyone else.

Little Jimmy

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2011, 07:18:30 PM »
Here's a question..... Let's say Rock didn't leave for Hollywood, and Hunter didn't tear his quad every 3rd Sunday of the month... Where on the card do you think Cena would be right now..

FreebirdSTF

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2011, 07:20:04 PM »
I love it when "the internet will bitch" line gets trotted out.  Nevermind that all these diverse opinions in this thread are all part of "the internet."

TH

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2011, 07:21:04 PM »
I love it when "the internet will bitch" line gets trotted out.  Nevermind that all these diverse opinions in this thread are all part of "the internet."

Yeah, the last time I checked, "The Internet" is not one person with one mind.

tillrules

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2011, 07:24:55 PM »
When has that ever been the case with WWE? The eras of Hogan, Austin and Cena, it was obvious when they would win and the rare times they would lose.

They went 16 years before letting a heel win at WrestleMania and guys like TH KILLED them for doing something different. The internet is gonna bitch no matter what.

Like I noted above, SCSA didn't always win.  He got moral victories, but he didn't always have the title and he had guys who could compete with him, even if they weren't as smart and cool as him.  He'd trick them with his beer toasts and stunts, but you didn't always know he'd win and win easily.  Guys like Rock & HHH were equals and even guys like Jericho could compete with him.  No one can compete with Cena.
 

FreebirdSTF

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2011, 07:28:31 PM »
Yeah, the last time I checked, "The Internet" is not one person with one mind.

Besides that, we do know there are certain internet trends etc (a higher % of internet folks were Benoit fans, I'd imagine), but in this discussion on this board I don't really see the relevance of that argument.

OneManX

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2011, 07:30:58 PM »
Here's a question..... Let's say Rock didn't leave for Hollywood, and Hunter didn't tear his quad every 3rd Sunday of the month... Where on the card do you think Cena would be right now..

Rock, would be either on top or nearing the end. HHH calls it quits after the first tear, Evolution never debuts. Brock doesn't pack it up, he's basically running the show, JBL probably doesn't debut at the top of the card and Cena probably doesn't get his win in 2005. A lot of 'what if's' shape alot of what we see today.

If I where to guess the WWE would be

Lesner would be running the show, and the Rock and Cena would be the 2nd tier, with Cena looking to take the mantle if Brock were to leave.


tillrules

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2011, 07:32:11 PM »
Besides that, we do know there are certain internet trends etc (a higher % of internet folks were Benoit fans, I'd imagine), but in this discussion on this board I don't really see the relevance of that argument.

Because many people use that argument as a simple dismissal of any criticism, no matter how well thought out it is.  If someone disagrees with you or doesn't like something  you like, just say its the internet's fault or that the person is acting like "the internet."  That will make you automatically right. 
 

MrCATV

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2011, 08:28:14 PM »
i just see it as the WWE as having a.d.d. as of late.  they're trying to find that person to counteract Cena, but just aren't fully satisfied with who they've thrown out there so they go back to the drawing board and try someone else to push.  maybe there's some master formula for it that we don't know about that factors in ticket sales, t shirt revenue and general interest of the fans.  it always seem, as of recent at least, that they put the person over right away(be it sheamus or barrett) and then they come to believe that they just aren't the one quite yet so they de-push that person and try someone new.   i kinda see where they're coming from because there's no one that grabs me by the neck and makes me think 'this guy is the next superstar.'  they all have aspects of them that are great, but no one is the total package(del rio is good, close maybe).  I'm sure the WWE is making money either way, so it doesn't matter to them whether they appease the percentage of the fanbase that thinks they desperately need another main attraction and they'd rather just keep fishing for one until they know for a fact they have the guy.  thats just an idea, i could be wrong, and probably am and i'm sure i'll be told so.

Webweaver

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2011, 08:28:58 PM »
No, the Wizard of Oz is a single feud between Dorothy and The Wicked Witch of the West over the Ruby Slippers.  To truly be wrestling, the story would have to keep going and you'd have to deal with fans wanting to see Glinda get the Slippers or the crowd popping for the Munchkins and when it would be proper for the Scarecrow to turn on Dorothy to get the Slippers.

The thing you keep missing and/or ignoring is the element I keep pointing out, the fact that modernly you cannot keep returning to the status quo in the way a TV show or a movie series can and does.  You have yet to address that.

For it to be wrestling, Flying Monkey #4 needs to get a bigger push and stop being burying by HHH The Wicked Witch of the West.

***Spoiler Alert***

Also the Wicked Witch of the East makes the save before Dorothy dumps the water on her.

Webweaver

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2011, 08:33:25 PM »
i just see it as the WWE as having a.d.d. as of late.  they're trying to find that person to counteract Cena, but just aren't fully satisfied with who they've thrown out there so they go back to the drawing board and try someone else to push.  maybe there's some master formula for it that we don't know about that factors in ticket sales, t shirt revenue and general interest of the fans.  it always seem, as of recent at least, that they put the person over right away(be it sheamus or barrett) and then they come to believe that they just aren't the one quite yet so they de-push that person and try someone new.   i kinda see where they're coming from because there's no one that grabs me by the neck and makes me think 'this guy is the next superstar.'  they all have aspects of them that are great, but no one is the total package(del rio is good, close maybe).  I'm sure the WWE is making money either way, so it doesn't matter to them whether they appease the percentage of the fanbase that thinks they desperately need another main attraction and they'd rather just keep fishing for one until they know for a fact they have the guy.  thats just an idea, i could be wrong, and probably am and i'm sure i'll be told so.

I think the mistake was made 2 years ago when The Miz was first getting his push. They had Cena beat him. I said at the time they should have let The Miz get the win keep the 135-0 gimmick to use later...now being a perfect time to bring it back. Cena vs The Miz at WM would write itself with that gimmick intact.

Miz can be a perfect counter to Cena. He can compete at every level with Cena, in the ring, on the mic and getting heat.

jerseyboy

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2011, 08:58:38 PM »
Yeah, the last time I checked, "The Internet" is not one person with one mind.

No, it's trotted out as a derogatory term to suggest that people that actually put more than five minutes of thought into what goes on with the product are smarks and not representative of the audience.  Because nosiree, the death of PPV and slow decline of TV ratings has nothing to do with the generally mediocre booking and lack of star creation in the last decade, can't be that.
"The window of opportunity keeps getting slammed shut on my fingers."

Chus-Kay

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2011, 09:00:32 PM »
64 posts before raw even starts = kind of awesome

MrCATV

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2011, 09:01:53 PM »
I just see it as a change in the way WWE operates for the worse in the grand scheme of things.  back before, it was, at least as far as i know, a single booker with a cast of guys and a long range goal.  now its all committees and focus groups and dollar amounts.  when you had hulkamania, he was the face of the company, but he wouldn't have been shit without the Andres and Savages and Pipers.  When you had Austin, you had Bret and HBK and the Rock.  Now you got Cena and what?  Orton and some lesser revered talents?  they might be great, but even as champs they aren't considered on the level as Cena.  But look at the Austin Era, you had to work with him to find that gimmick that eventually paid off.  Same with the Rock, he didn't just step into the ring and become the Rock.  Now it just seems like they look at the wrestlers as interchangeable parts and if they aren't cutting it, instead of working with them to perfect their craft, they automatically go to someone new.  i don't know, maybe i'm way off base, but i just think if they'd let the talent pan out more, it would be for the best.  there's no reason Sheamus or Barrett shouldn't be able to reach that upper eschelon of WWE greatness if given the right tools.

GesusKriest

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2011, 09:02:02 PM »
Interesting start to the show.  A countdown clock?

GesusKriest

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2011, 09:04:38 PM »
Annnnnd here's Cena.  Damn, I think this crowd loves him.  Heh.

First "ROCKY!" chant.

Chus-Kay

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2011, 09:04:40 PM »
"you suck, you suck, you suck"

i miss you northern california

FreebirdSTF

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2011, 09:05:46 PM »
Let's see how this goes about the Rock.

GesusKriest

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2011, 09:06:49 PM »
Replaying the footage is not going to help with the lack of cheers.  I think that's a bad call.

FreebirdSTF

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2011, 09:07:09 PM »
The Rock is so awesome.

MrCATV

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2011, 09:07:23 PM »
Cena is gonna turn heel, i can feel it!

Chus-Kay

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Re: RAW 2-21-2011
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2011, 09:07:45 PM »
Replaying the footage is not going to help with the lack of cheers.  I think that's a bad call.

don't think they are trying to do that, but lets see what cena says in response.