Messages

1

Wrestling & MMA / Re: 3-3-11 (spoiler)

« on: February 27, 2011, 04:41:11 PM »

Was the Tron airing a backstage segment during Sting's intro?

2

Wrestling & MMA / Re: TNA World Title?

« on: February 26, 2011, 10:07:18 PM »

Something's never clicked with me about Anderson

Even the Kennedy stuff, he had a great voice, and talked well, but in terms of content, he didn't say much or anything. And watching his work in TNA, it's the same thing. Good stage presence, but has NO idea what to say when he gets out there. He's more trying to get the liners and the tiny jabs, instead of building up the Kennedy character, like he has yet to give HIMSELF an identity.

In WWE is the Rock, in TNA it's Borderline Stone Cold.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: TNA World Title?

« on: February 26, 2011, 02:35:35 PM »

you could say that about wwe for the most part.  only the adr/edge feud seems like the title is important (if only because adr wants his first world title reign and talks about it).  no one cares about the us, ic, or tag titles.  and the miz/cena feud is more about the rock than the wwe title so far.

that's not an excuse for tna, but a comment on the state of today's wrestling.

I agree, but like when the Miz won it, it was more about the Miz proving everyone wrong, and showing he's the real deal. I think the Cena/Miz feud might get more about the belt, but with the Rock stuff who knows.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: TNA World Title?

« on: February 26, 2011, 11:45:41 AM »

It's important, but I dont think anyone in TNA makes it FEEL important, it seem like the World Title just takes backseats to all the major storylines and the title belt is just there. The last time I felt TNA cared about the belt in a storyline sense, might of been when Jarrett was holding it, because you can see that dethroning Jarrett was the most important thing in hat company. And that dethroning Jarrett would make you "the guy".

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: Mistico signs with WWE

« on: February 25, 2011, 12:19:57 AM »

I mean, I understand that he is gonna have to pick up the WWE style, but in terms of getting a hot push, he's pretty much ready. He was the CMLL version of Cena a few years ago and he basically did it all there, this was the next logical step for him.

And i'm glad that the WWE is not toying too much with his identity and character, especially with CMLL owning the rights to the name "Mistico" but the name Sin Cara, just seems like they are working a Del Rio feud real soon. (Del Rio's lucha name was Dos Caras Jr.)

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: Impact! 2/24 Anderson/RVD/Angle

« on: February 24, 2011, 09:56:37 PM »

Whenever Velvet gets into a confrontation, she shoves her boobs in her opponent face...

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 22, 2011, 07:20:31 PM »

I thought the tag matches themselves were great. Miz pretty much singlehandedly winning the tag titles and then playing Ricky Morton brilliantly in the 2nd match. The ending was predictable, but still very stupid. The angle is tired, but the participants in it did a great job.

It couldn't of been that predictable if people are asking questions.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 22, 2011, 09:01:10 AM »

I dug the ending, a new twist on an old story, and miz fires the first salvo in this feud. and it looks like they are downplaying Rock/Cena and up playing Cena/Miz and honestly for all that's involved, that might be better. I have the feeling that they might try to get the Rock involved somehow, but at this point, it's gonna take away from this match more than add to.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 11:03:13 PM »

Great ending.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 11:01:39 PM »

Great teases for the hot tag

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 10:58:03 PM »

The Miz, playing Babyface in peril?

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 07:30:58 PM »

Here's a question..... Let's say Rock didn't leave for Hollywood, and Hunter didn't tear his quad every 3rd Sunday of the month... Where on the card do you think Cena would be right now..

Rock, would be either on top or nearing the end. HHH calls it quits after the first tear, Evolution never debuts. Brock doesn't pack it up, he's basically running the show, JBL probably doesn't debut at the top of the card and Cena probably doesn't get his win in 2005. A lot of 'what if's' shape alot of what we see today.

If I where to guess the WWE would be

Lesner would be running the show, and the Rock and Cena would be the 2nd tier, with Cena looking to take the mantle if Brock were to leave.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: Elimination Chamber PPV thread

« on: February 21, 2011, 07:22:10 PM »

Nexus was a nice idea and it did draw some pretty good reactions for him.  But even then, he was right back in the title picture after the initial defeat of the group at Summerslam.  Even with his "slavery" period, he was in title matches.  I'm talking a complete removal of him from the picture.  Letting him chase an elusive goal (like getting to a heel leader) while the others compete for the title.

He fought for the title at Night of Champions... his next title match Wrestlemania 27.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 07:05:09 PM »

You don't get it, and you never will.

Because there is more evidence to prove that I'm right?

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: Elimination Chamber PPV thread

« on: February 21, 2011, 07:03:59 PM »

That's a significant difference.  SCSA held the belt for like 20 months in 7 years.  Cena has held the belt for a much higher percentage of time.  Not only that, when he's not being sidetracked in any way, he's been either champion or challenger nearly every month for the last 5 years.

And Stone Cold was no different? He wasn't contending for the title?

There is evidence which says that Cena's run isn't effecting all of the fans.  It's the crowd reactions every single time he wrestles.  Did you ever see a split in the fans for SCSA?  Or Rock or HHH or Foley?  Cena obviously appeals to younger fans and women, that is obvious from the sounds of the cheers.

Stone Cold never had to deal with the IWC. And the business wasn't as "exposed" as it is now. And, again the booing, just works for Cena's character, instead of winning those people over, he keeps doing his things, pbecuase people are buying tickets to see him lose and are booing him when he comes out. Want him to go away? Don't buy tickets and dont react. The moment you react to it, you're pretty much sucked in.

I've always advocated separating Cena from the title chase and giving him a quest of sorts.   Having Cena spend several months chasing an elusive foe who puts monsters in his way that Cena can defeat without having him in the title picture would be a good use for him.  It would allow him to be the superhero his fans want to see without making everyone on the roster clearly secondary.

Nexus?

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: Elimination Chamber PPV thread

« on: February 21, 2011, 07:00:46 PM »

Yes, actually it would.  You've addressed the two problems with Miz's push.  One, the complete reliance on Riley and outside interference and two, Miz's ability to have offense on his own/  In that scenario, Miz competes evenly for 15 minutes and shows toughness to survive Cena's finishers.  Then although he needs the chair to win, he still hits his finisher and defeats Cena. 

The point is that Cena should be slightly better than Miz, he's the face and has right and goodness on his side.  Miz should need to cheat to win, but what he shouldn't need is help from multiple guys to win.

He's a heel, who gives a fuck HOW he wins as long as he wins it?

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 06:58:41 PM »

Booked like a TV show =/= is a TV show. Do you know how to analyze in shades of grey, because that's what wrestling is. It's not exactly TV, but it's not a sport either. It has elements of both, and if you think either way about it, you miss the point entirely.

There's nothing else out there like pro wrestling. Nothing. To pretend you can compare it directly to UFC or to Friends is disingenuous.

And yet we can bust out the TV tropes the WWE/WCW/ECW/TNA pretty much fall right into it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WWE

Maybe TV is too far, but I'll say theater.

It's good guy vs bad guy and good guy overcomes the odds. It's the Wizard of Oz, where everyone is fighting to get the Ruby Red Slippers (the World Title Belt) That's wrestling stripped down to it's overall theme.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 06:51:05 PM »

It's not a TV show, it's not a sport. It's a hybrid of both. That's what you and WWE creative don't understand.

Dude, TV wrestling is booked like a TV Show, corny segments in all. Dont believe pull up some AWA, super corny stuff happened then to.

This isn't Japan, where wrestling is considered a sport, or Mexico where it's  religion, it's the US, where it's viewed as some dumb TV show.

No one in the business believes it's a sport, read up on any interview with Cornette, or Dutch, or any WWE writer.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 06:46:10 PM »

That's the big problem.  It's the mindset that WWE creative has and it's patently innaccurate.  This is not a serial TV show like The Sopranos of Friends.  This is a simulation of an ongoing sports organization with a fanbase that expects to see change.  A TV show is designed to remain centered around the central star, with occasional "elevations" of characters who unexpectedly take off.  The status quo is what makes the show successful.  Conversely, wrestling in the modern era has centered around change, the centerpiece of the show has to change periodically or it becomes stagnant.

Moreover, the TV show model fails when you consider revenue streams.  They don't ask you to pay once a month for special episodes of the Simpsons or Family Guy.  You have to be able to deliver something special for those paid episodes and if the result is rarely ever in doubt, why should consumers pay for it.

It's a TV show, it's always been a TV show, the moment you think it's a sport, is the moment you've fucked yourself over you lost..

Again, the PPV model is in needs of major overhual, but for some reason so of these shows have increase of buys, and the WWE doesn't seem to be stopping soon.

As well as the idea of an evolving centerpiece, when has that ever worked in wrestling? What company has the really worked for? TNA? ECW? WCW?

20

Wrestling & MMA / Re: Elimination Chamber PPV thread

« on: February 21, 2011, 06:38:11 PM »

While this is undoubtedly true, the modern era is different for the simple fact that this is the first generation of fans who have been raised (for lack of a better term) on the concept of change as the only constant.  When a Backlund or Hogan had a long title reign, it was what was expected.  Champions reigned for a long time.  The same with the regional champions like Lawler or Dusty.  Fans wanted and accepted that status quo.

The modern fan is different.  The last 15 years have been centered around the concepts of change and surprise.  Title change hands with more regularity, alliances change and shift.  The end result of things continually returning to a single default set up is contrary to this thinking.  With this being the case, having one invincible centerpiece who essentially represents a status quo or default status, is not a good idea.

SCSA does illustrate your point to an extent.  SCSA was as protected as Cena, maybe moreso.  No one ever got over on him or fooled him or out thought him.  He rarely lost cleanly and if he did he would get some manner of moral victory or embarrass the winner in some way.  But one thing that SCSA was not, was a dominant champion in the sense that he had the belt constantly.   HHH held the belt more often and for longer times than SCSA did.   

The major difference is that SCSA did not represent the status quo in the way that Cena does.  SCSA always won, but his wins were personal and they didn't carry such a sense of inevitability as Cena does.  What I mean by that is that with real nearly equal options like Rock or HHH to hold the belt, SCSA being kept strong never felt like he was inevitably going to be champion every time he feuded with the champion or challenged for it.  Cena has that sense, in the same way that HHH had it during his last big run, where it feels like no champion has a chance to hold him off.

But...

You have long term champions, it goes stale

Constant change, it devalues the belt and it makes winning it meaningless.

According to arguments that I've had to deal with (not from here)

Most of Stone Cold runs were at the smallest 2 months(OBVIOUSLY skipping losing it to Kane the next night), average 3 months, with one going 4 months. HHH didn't start stacking up reigns until Austin leaves, where HHH is pretty much the top guy (his Evolution-run)/ in terms of overall, Austin held the belt about the same amount of times Cena has in spans of their career (so far) Austin with 6 in 7. and Cena with 7 in 5.

As for your last point, that's purely speculation, SCSA's runs meant a lot to us, who's to say Cena's run doesn't mean alot of the current fans now? It's easy to think that way b/c the curtain is pulled back, there isn't that aura of "What's gonna happen next?"

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 05:54:26 PM »

Because you get to feud with Cena, you seem to think of that as a "push" regardless what happens once you've been smacked down by the "star" of the "show."  This show doesn't have to have only one main character, that's why I'm confused by your insistence that making Cena the thing everyone revolves around is the right decision.

The push ends at Cena.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: Elimination Chamber PPV thread

« on: February 21, 2011, 05:53:21 PM »

Okay, revenue streams don't matter!

When the market is DRASTICALLY different and not taking it into consideration?

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: Elimination Chamber PPV thread

« on: February 21, 2011, 05:44:26 PM »

Yeah, same stuff because you obviously don't get it. Niall smacked you down on the "profitable" talking point, yet here you go still blathering on like it's 1999. It's not.

No, he thinks it's 99 and RATINGSANDBUYRATESMATTER~! Even though they dont.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: RAW 2-21-2011

« on: February 21, 2011, 05:43:47 PM »

If anything, the notion that everyone needs a belt is what's ruining the build for these young guys. Clearly, Swagger wasn't ready to hold the World Championship, but they gave it to him anyway. Why? Because apparently, no matter how shittily they treat the titles, they think titles mean you get over. That's not the case. I don't want guys to hold the title. I want guys to get pushed and to mean something. Webby says that if you push everyone, you push no one, and he's right (I mean, LOOK at TNA), but at the same time, if you push nobody, then you get fans who clamor to see a bunch of guys get a decent push, and you get situations where people get pissed off when a guy like Barrett, who was clearly not ready to win the WWE Championship and after he was buried by Cena, was treated as such, didn't win the title at Survivor Series.

The WWE kept missing the boat on pushing new guys, and now, they have to scramble to elevate Punk, del Rio and Miz to make up for the years that they let Orton, Trips, Taker, Edge and Cena on top get stale. To deny that is to drink the Kool-Aid. Furthermore, to defend the booking by saying "oh well, it's Cenas world guys! LOL" despite the fact that he's clearly not growing the business is asinine to say the least. Cena sells merch to the existing fans, but when you're not bringing anyone new in, maybe it's time for you to share the spotlight.

I'm sorry but as long as wrestling is profitable there are gonna be top guys, and "superman" because people pay to see these people lose/win/talk/eat a bowl of cereal When people start paying to see R-Truth dance and stuff, then we can talk about this.

all they've done is create a revolving door of guys to feed to Cena, he doesn't have a main rival, he's had rivals, he's had people get the best of them.

This idea that no one is getting a push, look at Sheamus year, Barrett got a feud against the top draw in the company, what is there to bitch about. He comes in and goes straight to the top guy. It's predictable in how this goes by now

Show up on RAW
Get a hot push
If you;re good
Go to Smackdown, cool off, stay consistently booked.

What's hurt Barrett is this Corre stuff, since they haven't done anything, honestly (fantasy booking alert) i;d have fed him to Edge or even Rey, give him a good feud to keep him going strong, he takes all the momentum from feuding with Cena and you keep it rolling, until you cool off on him.

Is the WWE booking rock solid? no, but in terms of introducing new guys and getting them over enough to sustain a reaction, what more proof do you want, is the WWE depending on safety guys at the top, obviously not they are getting ready to have the Miz headline a with Cena and have Del Rio in the co-main spot.

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Wrestling & MMA / Re: Elimination Chamber PPV thread

« on: February 21, 2011, 05:30:59 PM »

The end of Austin's run? It had to be longer, because I remember Austin throwing Rocks Intercontinental title in a river(or it might have been the other way around). Plus they fought at two Wrestlemania's at least.... It had to be longer than that.

I'm going from the Mania, Austin's heel turn/Rock's face turn, since that was (debatable) the end of Austin's run at the top of card. (2000-2001 'Invasion) left in 2002, Rock left in '03 It was being transitioned into the Brock lesner show, but he left in 2004.